Dear watch collectors,
This is a blog dedicated to the wonderful Patek Philippe 5070. This reference is probably one of the most sought after modern Patek Philippe watches made in the last decades.
The watch was first introduced in 1998 and was discontinued in 2008 – 2009. The first reference was the yellow gold with black dial ( 5070J) this watch was made between 1998 and 2002. In a Patek magazine we were told that Patek made about 250 pieces per year. It was not an limited edition so they did not make exactly 250 pieces per year. In that same magazine we were told that the production capacity was close to 250 pieces per year. It was not possible to make more because it takes quite some time to make such a watch. So 250 per year is more or less the maximum they could make.
After the 5070J Patek made the same watch but in white gold with a silver white dial. This reference (5070G) was made between 2002 and 2006, so again 4 years in production which means also about 1000 pieces were made in total ( 250 per year during 4 years).
In 2004 they also started with the 5070 in red gold with a silver grey dial (5070R) That watch was made until 2008. As you could guess, also 4 years at 250 per year so once again we have about 1000 pieces in total.
The fact that they made only more or less 250 pieces per year is not just a rumor but was documented in one of their magazines. As every Patek collector knows you will get the Patek Philippe magazine if you bought your first watch from your AD. Your AD will fill in a Patek document and send it to the Patek headquarters in Geneva. From then on you will receive twice a year this wonderful magazine. And this is where we found this information. Many years ago Patek spoke about the 5070 in their magazine. These 2 pictures are taken from the article. They are in French but under the pictures I translated the most important info.
TRANSLATION :“Honored with the famous Geneva seal – a symbol of technical and aesthetic perfection – the reference 5070 whose annual production is limited to 250 pieces, because of it’s complexity, is an ultimate collection object. ”
At the end, Patek decided to make a very small batch of 5070’s ….. in PLATINUM.
The Patek 5070 celebrated it’s 10th anniversary and made the 5070P. This watch is definitely one of the most sought after watches in the world. The platinum 5070 with it’s blue dial was made only a few months between 2008 and 2009. There are no official production numbers but many collectors believe there must be only 100 – 175 of these watches out there.
Right from the start this magnificent reference was impossible to get. Some say it was an application piece. An application piece means that Patek Philippe doesn’t want to sell this watch to just anybody. You must be a well known Patek collector before they decide if you can or can not buy the watch. Most authorized Patek Philippe dealers never got such a 5070P. I believe there are about 400 – 450 authorized dealers in the world.
A few high-end Patek collectors I spoke tried to get the watch but they did not get one because it was so rare. This had a direct impact on the secondary market. Just after the very first pieces were delivered a few of them came up for sale … with a huge premium! Think about a 50 till 100% mark up. That was back in 2009. Today these watches are even more difficult to find because most of them are in the possession of big collectors and these collectors are not interested in selling their rare watch.
- Water resistant to 25m.
- Fold-over clasp.
- Sapphire crystal case back.
- Pink Gold case 42 mm
- Caliber CH 27-70
- Thickness 5.57 [mm]
- Movement diameter 27.50 [mm]
- Case diameter 42.00 [mm]
- Number of jewels 24
- Power reserve min 50 max 60 hours
- Balance type Gyromax
- Vibrations / hour 18000 [Hz]
- Distinctive sign Geneva Seal
Occasionally one is sold via big auction houses like Antiquorum, Sothebys or Christies. A quote from the Sotheby’s auction house : ” …Ref 5070 is the second largest wristwatch produced by Patek Philippe, with its diameter falling 0.8 mm short of the Sky Moon Tourbillon. Launched in 1998, the Ref 5070 also represents Patek Philippe’s return to the production of chronograph wristwatches after an almost 30 year break. The last chronograph model produced before this was Ref 1463, for which production was halted in the late 1960s.
In 2008, on the 10th anniversary of this iconic model, Patek Philippe unveiled the Ref. 5070P, encased in platinum with a blue-metallic sun-burst dial. The Ref 5070P replaced the discontinued pink and white gold versions. The Ref 5070P, discontinued in 2009, was only produced for one year, making it among the rarest and most exclusive versions of this hugely successful reference.” a few pictures found via google
And for the moment this is probably the most expensive 5070 sold at an auction . This 5070P was sold in november 2013 at Chrisites for an astonishing 188.000 USD !
More info about that sale HERE
Understanding The Patek Philippe 5070 Chronograph
A great video by HODINKEE. (click here for the video) For those that like ‘DNA’ know that the reference 5070 was inspired by the reference 2512, which was aviator’s split-seconds chronograph . This 2512 was made about 60 years ago. The 2512 was a large, for that time even a VERY large wristwatch. The 2512 was 45mm ! So even 3 mm bigger than the 5070. I believe you can see the 2512 if you would ever visit the Patek museum in Geneva, something I would really recommend.
The 2512 was a unique piece, and if you ask my the ultimate collectors dream but I doubt the Patek museum will ever consider selling this watch. Also know that the 5070 is also visible in the Patek museum, something which cannot be said about most modern Patek Philippe watches. So I guess we can assume Patek also considers the ref.5070 as an important timepiece.
The possibly unique reference 2512.
As you can see, a similar case with the ‘double bezel’, similar lugs and a identical dial. But as said more complicated … a split second chronograph.
We prefer the platinum 5070P but this 5070R is also worth looking at. It is a double signed ‘ Tiffany & Co’. Honestly I never understood why some people want to pay more if there is some co-branding on the dial. But Tiffany seems to be ‘hot’. This 5070R was sold via Bonhams in december 2011 for an astonishing $ 104,500 !! — Lot 120 : Patek Philippe. A very rare and fine 18K rose gold chronograph wristwatch with register and tachymeter Retailed by Tiffany & Co., Ref:5070R, Case no. 4274227, Movement no. 3362417, sold 2005 Sold for US$ 104,500 (€92,436) inc. premium, 8 Dec 2011. More info here.
I have seen some Nautilus with Tiffany on the dial and indeed they seem to be a bit more valuable. The same can be said about all those Rolexes with Tiffany dial. But US$ 104,500 in december 2011 was much more than anybody would expect for this 5070R. The 5070P in company with 2 other marvelous Patek Philippe watches (5970G and 5270G)
And why not ….. THE collectors dream, the whole set of 5070’s
Picture above : from Amanico via the purists
A bit more about the history of the wonderful movement CH-27-70 In 1986, Patek Philippe opened a new chapter in its legacy of chronographs by presenting the famous manually wound caliber CH 27-70 based on a Nouvelle Lémania movement blank produced exclusively for Patek Philippe and completely reworked in the manufacture. In the eyes of connoisseurs, it quickly gained a reputation as the most beautiful chronograph movement of traditional design available on the market. In 1996, the workshops received a patent for a split-seconds chronograph mechanism with an isolator catch that totally eliminated rate accuracy deviations when lap times were stopped.
In 2005, Patek Philippe attracted global attention with the thinnest split-seconds column-wheel chronograph movement ever made. The hand-wound caliber CHR 27-525 PS of which only a few are produced each year, was the first chronograph movement developed and manufactured entirely in-house.
Only one year later, the manufacture delighted waiting enthusiasts with the launch of its first totally proprietary self-winding chronograph movement : the CH 28-520 IRM QA 24H with Patek Philippe’s patented Annual Calendar.
The year 2009 marked a decisive step forward. Patek Philippe’s CH 29-535 PS movement enriched the manufacture’s repertoire with a totally new manually wound chronograph movement that was also developed entirely in-house. The company’s portfolio now consists of 19 basic calibers with a total of 50 different versions.
The CH 29-535 PS is an exceptional caliber for which Patek Philippe had to mobilize the full breadth of skills and experience of its team. After all, the new movement will replace the legendary CH 27-70, so far considered by aficionados to be the most beautiful traditionally designed chronograph movement. And indeed, the new CH 29-535 PS is a worthy successor, surpassing it in many respects, and opening the door for exciting variations. (source: www.patek.com)
Extra info about platinum watches in general.
Did you know platinum watches are per se already rare ? In 2014 the Swiss watch export Was good for a total of 28,582,000 watches, and this represented a total value of 20,978,000,000 CHF.
- 545,000 watches were made in precious metal
- 15,698,000 watches are made of steel
- 1,248,000 were bimetallic
- 3,175,000 are made in ‘other metals’
- 7,975,000 are ‘other material’
‘Other metals’ are probably Titanium, copper, bronze, aluminum, etc.’Other material’ are probably ceramic, plastic watches etc. think about the Swatches. Anyway, this is official information provided by The Federation of Swiss Watch Industry (FH). So 545,000 are precious metal …. I contacted the Federation of Swiss Watch Industry (FH) and asked them if they could tell me how many were made in platinum. Their answer was 11,400 in 2014 … , only 11,400!!! I’m sure Rolex takes the biggest part of these 11,400 with their platinum day-date and Daytona. Either way, 11,400 in an entirely year is very little. I will give you the figures for platinum watches since 2008
- in 2008 : 15,800 pieces ( total value 546,700,000 CHF)
- in 2009 : 9,500 pieces ( total value 464,500,000 CHF)
- in 2010 : 9,200 pieces ( total value 468,800,000 CHF)
- in 2011 : 9,200 pieces ( total value 452,200,000 CHF)
- in 2012 : 8,300 pieces ( total value 467,000,000 CHF)
- in 2013 : 10,700 pieces ( total value 569,900,000 CHF)
- in 2014 : 11,400 pieces ( total value 615,700,000 CHF)
And if it is good enough for the Patek Philippe CEO, Mr Thierry Stern, I guess it must be something very special!
(picture credits : Foversta for the website http://www.watchprosite.com)
And what about this one? I won’t say it is a piece unique because I simply don’t know. But this must be an ultra rare Patek 5070G. Not the regular white gold 5070 with white dial and feuille hands but a white gold piece with salmon dial ! Also note that it has dots and not numbers except the ’12’. But then again the ’12’ is not the same style as other 5070’s, it’s the Breguet style. To make it complete, the hands are not ‘feuille’ but ‘Dauphine’
Picture by ‘Watchpas’ and got it via twitter.
Why most collectors prefer the ref 5070 and not the 5170 – an article written by ‘Mr James Gurney for The Telegrapgh’
“One digit separates the 5170 from its predecessor the 5070, but the difference in both price and substance reveals much about what watch collectors value. Both are simple chronographs of the sort that have a special place in the Patek canon. The 5170, introduced in 2010, features a new chronograph movement that was five years in development and is Patek’s last word in horological sophistication. Patented features extend even to the shape of the gear teeth; with its 65-hour power reserve and flawless finishing, the 5170 was one of the first models to bear the Patek Philippe Seal, the company’s in-house kitemark.
At 39mm in diameter the 5170 is more in keeping with Patek’s style, the brand having largely ignored the trend for ever wider watches, while the design is also closer to the standard Calatrava look in the details of dial furniture and even the case shape. With a more advanced movement and more pure Patek look, you would think that collectors might be keen to trade up.
But judging by the prices 5070s command in the pre-owned market, collectors don’t see it that simply. Some prefer the 5070 for standing slightly outside the normal range – with its 42mm case, this is the Patek with attitude. Some argue that its purity of design is simply not bettered by the new boy on the block, the chrono counters being in line with the centre point being a much-cited detail. But for most, I suspect the real reason is that the 5070 scores so highly because of three things: a mythical movement in the Lemania based 27-70; the fact that it was Patek’s first simple chronograph in 40 years when it was launched in 1998; and its design harked back to a vanishingly rare 1950s pilot’s chrono (the Ref. 2512).”
link to the article, click HERE.
A clever investment according to Haute Time ….
“Patek Philippe is blue chip, it’s an inflation hedge and if you invest in the classics (by which I mean the Philippe Stern watches) its steady yield. Watches such as the 5970, 5070 and 5004 I suspect will continue to deliver that 4-5 per cent a year return when purchased with original box , certificate and in good condition.” …
For the complete article, please follow the link and click HERE
Let’s have a closer look at the superb finished movement.
These are pictures I found via google. Just look at the perfect beveling, it is so well polished it almost looks like a mirror. Also the Geneva stripes a very well done. I have compared this to the movement we find in the ref.5170 and I believe the 5070 is much better and much more interesting. The 5170 is very nice but I believe they made some modifications with the aim to be able to make more movements. Patek annual production number goes up year after year, just like any other successful brand. So making a less labor-intensive movement is part of the solution. I believe Patek makes 55,000 watches per year today and 10 years ago it was only 40.000 ( 40,000 of which 12,000 were quartz so only 28,000 mechanical movements)
just look at it
The top five things to look for when investing in a rare or vintage timepiece:
Condition is trickier to assess than it sounds: any watch can be brought to life by a competent watch maker but at what cost? Polishing a watch is quite literally a war of attrition, material is ground away to the level of the deepest scratches in order to present a smooth polished surface. Polishing might give the appearance of a new watch but when the broad, sharp lugs of a vintage Sub become thin and rounded or the crisp, angled bezel of a Royal Oak becomes smooth and softened, they loose their life, their character and ultimately their value. Pay attention to the shape and feel of the watch more than minor scratches that can be carefully removed as you wish.
Harder to spot than condition, is how original the watch is. It might seem attractive to have a watch where the manufacturer has changed patinated hands or bezel inserts for a set of brand new ones, however there is a big discrepancy in prices between pieces fitted with new crisp hands and dials, and those fitted with slightly discoloured but all original components. Rolex notably will fit watches with so-called ‘Service dials’, identical to the untrained eye but subtle typographical differences can affect the price you achieve in the future as collectors crave originality above all else.
Some of the watches that have historically proved the strongest investments over the years have been complications. Fashions and styles evolve over the years but a good complication from a respected manufacturer will always stand on its own merits. A tourbillon is a tourbillon, a perpetual calendar is a perpetual calendar and those technical achievements can never be taken away. The interest in complications has been consistent throughout the history of watch making and is a very safe bet for the future.
‘Box and Papers’ – magic words to collectors. To think of a watch’s original papers as its birth certificate is an entirely valid comparison. It not only proves the watch’s origin and provides a solid lead as to its authenticity but begins the watch’s story of ownership. Unlike Rolex, many watches are difficult to date precisely and directly through serial numbers, so the papers provide important clues as to its age, history and where to start the next stage of your research. As such they always command a healthy premium over their non-papered brethren.
Not applicable to buying at auction but the most important thing to ‘buy’ is the person on the other side of the counter. Whilst a reputable dealer may seem to be a more expensive way to buy a vintage watch, you are buying far more than just their watch. You are buying into the years of experience within their business, the hours of research put into every watch that’s been through their hands and importantly you are buying into their reputation. A good watch dealer should offer you a guarantee of authenticity, a warranty on the workings of the watch and be very happy to buy the watch back from you in the future!
And you want to guess the top pick investment ? Here you go …
“Patek’s quintessential chronograph, the 5070 is a watch that simply ticks every box. It’s presented in an extra-large (for Patek!) case and houses horology’s most popular complication, the chronograph. Since the 5070′s launch in 1998 there have been four variants of this exceptional watch before it was discontinued in 2010. The combination of a beautiful watch, in a modern size with a short production run has meant that prices for 5070 chronographs have climbed steadily and reliably.”
Source : please click here ‘Watch club’s top tips for investing in watches’
If you ever wondered how they make yellow, red, white and other gold. This table shows what materials they mix to get a different color.
Platinum on the other hand is much more ‘pure’.
If you’re examining a piece of jewelry forged from a precious metal, look for the hallmark as a way of indicating its purity. Pure platinum is often marked simply with the letters ‘PLT’, ‘PLAT’, or ‘PLATINUM’, which indicates that the piece consists of at least 95% platinum. If other alloys are added, such as copper or palladium, the hallmark will indicate the number of parts-per-thousand, such as ‘900PLAT’ (900 parts of platinum out of 1000). The Patek Philippe 5070P is PT950, so as pure as it gets.
Another great shot
And what an amazing effect when the sun shines on the dial …
Nice jet ….. Nice watch !
Even for patek collectors who have several high end watches from Patek and other brands the 5070P seems to be the most preferred watch
“Grail Patek” … Out of his current collection, Jasem’s favorite watch is the 5070P. The purchase was driven by his friend the Patek Collector who insisted that Jasem buys the watch so much that he actually asked the store to put it on his tab and he would deal with Jasem later, claiming that he will one day thank him. I guess now is that day as Jasem calls it his “favorite possession”. …
please read the story on watch-anish.com : click here
Picture above is an extract from the wonderfull book ‘Patek Philippe by Patrizzi and Mondani. A must have book for the patek collector. Buy it here
The 5! different 5070’s
An article you must read …. Probably one of the most interesting websites concerning watches “businessmontres”. Anyway, you really need to read this article. Some of you might know the most famous Patek enthusiast on Instagram ‘Patekaholic’ aka Jasem Al Zeraei. Well The people behind Businessmontres published an interview with Mr Al Zeraei.
Click HERE for the entire article! … And guess his favorite Patek Philippe reference …
A quote from the interview :
◉ What is your favorite ?◉ JAZ : I am a big fan of the reference 5070 and 5004 and own every 5070 ever produced (J,G,P,R and the 5071G with baguette diamonds) 5004 I own the yellow gold and platinum and I intend to purchase more. photo credits : Patekaholic on Instagram.
Strange news from London : Patek Philippe Grand exhibition
May 27th – June 7th – Saatchi Gallery. A must see exhibition. The biggest and most important ever. But what surprised us collectors the most, that had the 4 different 5070’s ford sale as an ultra limited piece. So 5 red, yellow and white gold pieces and 5 platinum. I believe the platinum was the same as in 2008-2009 but the gold versions were slightly different. Case and movement were ofcourse the same but thy used another dial color. I was told these were NOT new watches but old stock. Which is strange. The reference 5070 was always very hot and in demand so I don’t understand why they kept a few pieces in stock at the Patek Manufacture in Switserland. Probably they were kept them in stock for a VERY special occasion. And it seems this Watch Art Grande Exhibition in London was the occasion. So congratulations to the top clients who were able to buy such a piece. Before I forget…. the price was very high.
Reference price in GBP price in Euro price in USD
“…So what have we got? Let’s start out with perhaps the most noteworthy, the Reference 5070 chronograph. Patek Philippe phased out this hugely popular, long-lasting model a few years ago to make way for its in-house pure chronograph, the 5170. Introduced in 1998, the 5070 used the famous Lemania 2310 ebauche, which Patek reworked and upgraded for one of the most desirable chronographs in the world. And the key new version, we reckon, is the one in white gold with a sensational salmon pink dial. There are in fact four versions of the 5070 on display: a platinum version with a blue dial, a yellow gold version with a black dial, and this, a rose gold version with a sunburst brown dial. …”
For the entire article please click HERE and read the article on http://www.salonqp.com. I really recommend it because there are quite a few other limited editions made for the exposition in the Saatchi Gallery but here we stick to the 5070’s
(picture credits Salon QP)
(picture credits Salon QP)
Here you have the price list for these and other special pieces they made for the London Saatchi event. Nice watches but VERY expensive. 5070 J is almost 4 times more expensive than the list price back in 2003 and the 5070R is 3 times more expensive than the last list price in 2008. You also might want to look at the 5970, 3970 and the others. Like said VERY expensive but even at that price much more demand than supply
Watch out … HOW TO SPOT A FAKE PATEK 5070
Not every fake watch looks like a 100 USD piece of crap. Most fakes are recognized within a second because they simply don’t look the same. Case or dial look different and if you look at the movement you will see everything but a Patek movement. Mostly an ETA, Valjoux or evena cheap Chinese movement. But definitely a movement that looks completely different from what you want to see in a Patek 5070.
Untill you find something like this
Watch out, this is a FAKE ref 5070J !!
On these pictures it looks good and original and I’m sure a lot of us could be fooled, this would be an expensive, very expensive mistake ! But after a closer look several things appeared to be wrong.
Let’s start with the dial. Difficult to see but the numbers on the dial are painted so no applied indexes! Now look at the hands. The hour and minute hands look fine but take a closer look at the hands in the chronograph subdials. Do you see the difference, these are wrong ( longer )
The case also looks fine after a first inspection … but where are the hallmarks on the lugs ?
And most important, the movement. Again, it does look good. And is very tricky because they really put some effort in this to make it look genuine. It has the Patek stamps and the Geneva seal. Bridges do have the ‘Patek Philipe’ , ‘Swiss’, and all the rest engraved. Even CH-27-70 is engraved in the base plate. BUT after inspecting it with a loupe the finishing was not as it should be, not even close. And several tiny parts just looked ‘different’. In fact this movement is a original Lemania 2310 so the same movement as in a 5070 but with one HUGE difference. Patek re-worked an re-finished that movement into something superior. They also changed a lot of parts to make it a lot better and more beautiful. Know that a lot of independents also start with an existing caliber ( thinking about Mr Philippe Dufour or some Vianney Halter). So an original Patek CH-27-70 looks 100% different than a Lemania 2310. So the fraudster tried to make a 2310 look like a CH-27-70 . They fake some parts with ‘Patek’ engraving but he or she was unable to finish it as it should be, nor did he change all the parts that Patek made inhouse, like for example the balance wheel which should have weights and no screws.
The picture below shows the a Lemania 2310 , now compare this with pics from a Patek CH-27-70 on this blog ( of course easy to see the differences here because the Lemania 2310 is an original one and not a faked CH-27-70)
So wheels are all on the same place and several parts look the same
One good advice when you buy something and you are not 100% sure. Let Patek have a look at the watch and ask them to check it.
Tiffany branded dial
I never understood why some people want to pay more for a watch that has the retailers name on the dial. Being Wempe, Tiffany or others we saw in the past I simply don’t get it. But for those that like it, somebody just send me a picture with a Patek 5070P Tiffany dial
I don’t know who made this picture
Don’t know who to credit for this one but congrats to the owner ! The complete set ! ( including the 5071)
THE collectors dream
Another one for the ‘Tiffany dial’ lovers
A 5070G with Tiffany dial
Remember these ultra rare pieces from the London Saatchi exhibition ?
My friend Khalid got one of these, well deserved ofcourse !! With his permission I post of few of his pictures on this blog. I you are on Instagram, please follow Patekcollector ( Khalid) and you will discover many, many other great watches !. But for now we’ll take a closer look at this very nice and very rare ( 5 pce) white gold 5070 with a gorgeous dial ( something between brown, beige and salmon color)
1 5070P is rare …. so what about 2 in 1 picture 🙂
Let’s have another look at the 5070’s ‘Grandfather’
the 2512, made in the 1950’s and the inspiration for that 5070. This was a unique piece and more complicated, it’s a split second. In 1996 this magnificent watch was sold at an Antiquorum auction in Geneva. The lot was sold for 792.000 CHF ( about 475.000 euro). We know that the winning bid came form the Patek museum because this is the place where you can admire the watch today. 500K is a lot of money and definitely back in 1996 but would’t it be great to own such a unique masterpiece ? Good for us Patek bought it in 1996 because that was probably the trigger to make the 5070 2 years later!
Frank Lampard (famous soccer player) but als known as a serious watch collector has one too
Mr Lampard has several Patek ( 5711, 5204,5170, 5975, 5726, …) AND also the 5070P. Picture found via instagram
Watchuwant.com made a good video about the watch on youtube. It’s about the 5070G, you might want to look at it
A few extra pictures … The Entire set of 5070’s
and as a bonus, 2 platinum 5070’s 🙂
Sold for 175,000 USD – 02 APR 2018 | HONG KONG